What did they get wrong...

"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike) 02/18/2020 at 08:01 • Filed to: fuel tank

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So...Friday before last I got the fuel tank replaced on my car as the old one was leaking from a small rust pinhole around the weld seam halfway down the tank.

All has been well. No more leaks, no more gas smell, no check engine lights no nothing.

The last time I filled up my tank last wee k , the pump didn’t seem to click off as I was pumping like it should. I stopped it myself without waiting for it to click and went on my way, then called the garage later to say “Hey, the pump didn’t click off like it’s supposed to.” (I had to put 46 litres into the tank, according to the pump...a nd it only holds 45 from the factory...)

They said “Oh, as it’s an after-market tank, it’s likely slightly larger than your old tank was. Just keep filling it next time until it clicks off and you’ll be fine.”

So, I went to do that this time and it only clicked off when gas started pouring out of the top of the filler neck where the cap goes on...

What did they screw up when they put my tank back in th at is causing the fuel pump to misread when to shut off and therefore overflow?

E90M3 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:17

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Let’s start at the origin of the problem. Your problem isn’t they installed the tank incorrectly, it’s that you needed a new tank to begin with. 

Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:21

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I may be terribly wrong, but I always thought the clicker action was on the pump end

Sovande > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:30

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Pretty sure the clicker offer thingy is incorporated into the pump nozzle itself. It should turn off in any container once the fuel displaces the air inside the nozzle.

That said, maybe there is a vent issue on the tank that would make this possible?

punkgoose17 > Sovande 02/18/2020 at 08:40

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Maybe not enough restriction in the vent for the fuel to put pressure on the clicker in the pump.

OPPOsaurus WRX > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:47

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i’ve filled up the little red container for my lawn mower and the pump clicks off for that. It has nothing to do with your tank.

Nibby > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:48

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they must’ve put soda in your tank

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:51

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Did they change the fill neck too? The gas pump shutoff works via a venturi mechanism, there is a hole on the end of the pump that once fuel blocks it triggers the shutoff. The only thing on your end that might affect how that works is if the filler neck is somehow different now and allows more fuel up the neck before triggering the shutoff. At least that’s my understanding of how this works, I don’t believe that the tank itself would affect anything.

DipodomysDeserti > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 08:51

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There are usually vent tubes in the filler neck. If one of them is unplugged or leaky pressure won’t build up to shut the pump off.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > E90M3 02/18/2020 at 09:10

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Well, steel tank and I live in a salty atmosphere on the Atlantic coast, with very salty winter roads. I get the car undercoated every year. But unfortunately it's going to happen eventually with a steel tank in this climate...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Sovande 02/18/2020 at 09:11

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I'm thinking there's a vent issue. It was going to do the same last time but I didn't let it go until it clicked off as I knew something didn't seem right...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > punkgoose17 02/18/2020 at 09:11

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I'm wondering if the vent tube is kinked or some such?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Jarrett - [BRZ Boi] 02/18/2020 at 09:12

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It is but if the venting in the tank is wrong it can affect the pressure that clicks off the nozzle, if I understand it correctly.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/18/2020 at 09:13

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As far as I know it’s a new tank, but the pump, fuel filter, etc, etc we’re all reused from my old one.

I thought I had read somewhere that if the venting in the tank isn’t working correctly it can cause the pump clicker to misread though?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > DipodomysDeserti 02/18/2020 at 09:14

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That is what I’m wondering. Maybe a vent tube got kinked as they raised the tank back into place. All I can say is it never used to do this before I had the tank changed. It had never happened once... And now it’s done it twice in a row on the first two fill ups with the new tank...? Something seems a little off...

E90M3 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 09:15

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That’s why they should’ve used plastic to begin with. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/18/2020 at 09:15

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I don’t know , I only know that it never used to do this with the old tank and ha s only done it since the new tank was installed...?

OPPOsaurus WRX > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 09:22

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is your tank still leaking? maybe a broken pump? i dont see how it could be your tank itself , it has nothing to do with the pump shutting off

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 10:03

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My Datsun has a 2” filler hose with no restrictions and the pump will still shuts off when fuel gets into the filler tube. You don’t want to fill it up that high though because it will put fuel into the vent hoses and cover the evaporation emissions return lines.

facw > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 10:05

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Not sure, but here’s a FP article taking about how the shutoff works:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

punkgoose17 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 10:24

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It could just be differently sized than stock causing it to not function correctly.

DipodomysDeserti > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 10:59

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Yeah. The tube probably fell off or isn’t secured properly.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 11:01

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I think it might be a venting issue based on a comment in the below thread

“Yup, not enough vent. Air pressure builds as the tank fills because the air can’t escape rapidly enough, then you get a big burp at the end as the tank pressure overcomes the fuel in the neck and blows it out. If it was a filler neck restriction, it wouldn’t take gas quickly at any point in the fill up.”  

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/gas-shoots-out-when-filling-the-car-at-the-station.772778/

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > DipodomysDeserti 02/18/2020 at 17:53

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I’m wondering. If it was kinked or plugged it would click the pump off constantly, right?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > E90M3 02/18/2020 at 17:54

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Should have, but there are no aftermarket tanks that are plastic and they went with steel, so not much point in me dwelling on it :(

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > OPPOsaurus WRX 02/18/2020 at 17:57

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Tank isn’t still leaking as far as I know...I was smelling a SLIGHT smell of gas when next to it when it was leaking, I’m not smelling anything now and my fuel economy seems about the same as it was I think.

Could be the pump...I can’t remember, but I DID fill up this tank and the last tank since the gas tank was replaced at the same gas station, so it’s possible I was at the same exact pump and that pump is defective. It’ll be down to a 3/4 filled tomorrow, so I might go to a completely different gas station and fill up there until it clicks off and see if it does the same thing...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/18/2020 at 17:59

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Oh, I know I don’t want to pump it up that high...I didn’t do it deliberately. With the old tank it would shut itself off as I pumped at a normal ‘full’ level. This last fuel tank only clicked off when the gas actually started overflowing out the fuel door...I was watching the pump to see cost/litres I’d put in and only noticed it was overflowing when it clicked off and I turned around...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > punkgoose17 02/18/2020 at 18:01

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As far as I know they re-used everything except the tank, itself, so the hose for the vent tube would be the same I used to have unless the physical ‘port’ it attaches to on the new tank is a different size?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 02/18/2020 at 18:04

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This sounds possible. I contacted the garage today and told them I’d try a completely different gas station and pump on my next fill-up and get back to them. (The last two fill-ups were at the same station I always go to...possibly the same pump even, so I will go to a completely different station/pump to rule the pump out as the culprit tomorrow).

DipodomysDeserti > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 19:19

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Usually.

punkgoose17 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 19:50

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I had to read how the gas pump turns itself off. You could have been right the first time the vent tube could be kinked, if it is venting through the fill tube instead maybe that is messing it up? 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > facw 02/18/2020 at 20:31

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Yup, pretty cool things! I’m wondering if the vent tube somehow became unhooked so it doesn’t shut off because the pump is just pulling in ambient air instead of the air in the tank, so it never reads correctly until the tank fills all the way up to the nozzle?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > punkgoose17 02/18/2020 at 22:54

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I hope that’s not the case...if so, they better fix it for free, the downside of which being it will take several more hours...

facw > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/18/2020 at 23:33

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Seems possible?